I have 2 of these setup in raid 1 configuration and one of the drives “disconnects” and reconnects about once a week. I have rechecked all connections and moved the cable of the one that was disconnecting to another SATA3 port on my MB. I have run the Diagnostic programs from WD and have not been able to pin point the issue. Any suggestions?
HI there, that model does not any any kind of protectiong to prevent it from dropping off the RAID (Like the TLER from the Enterprise drives), so I guess it’s something that is going to happen as long as you are using those drives…
I had a similar problem with a 2TB Green, but not in RAID configuration. Warranty replace of the drive. No problems after that.
But I had also a 2 x 1TB Black FAEX RAID 1 configuration. Both HDDs crashed 2 days ago without notice. Cannot recover data. They where bought 6 months ago.
Good luck!
Hi, I am having the same problem with two WD1002FAEX-007BA0. Once a month or so one drive fails and the RAID controller starts a recovery (ASUS P6T-SE). I get the same problem when I set the PC into sleep mode and turn it off afterwards. No idea if it is the hard drive it self, the RAID Controller or something else. Before I had two Seagate drives without any problems. Is it a spin-up delay that causes the problem? no clue
Hi there, new joiner, long time system builder, never had any RAID issues, ever!
Building a new machine for a colleague: Asus P8H67M-LE + i5-2300 + 8GB DDR3 + 2 x WD2002FAEX.
Cannot get the RAID to be stable through a cold boot.
RAID1 Array creation and Windows 7 64bit install without a hitch, super fast. Install the first two security patches from WU and reboot, RAID OK. If I choose “shut down” and the re-start, the Intel Rapid Storage Technology BIOS ROM utility reports RAID “degraded” and requires rebuild (approx 5hrs).
Swapped motherboard from retailer, problem re-occurs.
Noticed at the first “degraded” indication, the BIOS RAID utility was listing only one member drive: suspecting the other was “glitchy”, got it replaced by retailer, but had no effect.
At my 7th array re-creation, Windows 7 installation: every warm restart, AOK. May manage one or two shut downs, but invariably by the third or fourth, RAID is degraded again.
Any ideas?
Like mindmyind I too am lost; don’t want to discount the mobo, have had to go throough 3 in a past experience to get rid of a problem, but it’s just so odd… RAID is supposed to be so easy, plug and play (or at least it has been in the past) I am lost and very disgruntled. The system should have been delivered days ago!
Unfortunately, WD takes the “cheap” way out of our sorrows with the following statement (Answer ID 996):
“_Western Digital does not provide direct technical support for RAID configuration and maintenance, whether the RAID is hardware or software based. Since there are many currently available RAID controllers, it is best to contact the manufacturer of your RAID controller or motherboard manufacturer for assistance with creating and maintaining your RAID array._”
And it does not even mention the RE series drives, so you may as well buy the cheaper Green or Blue and hope for the best… clear example: I have been running 2 x Green 808.8GB in RAID1 on DriveXpert of an Asus mobo, in my office main machine, for more than two years straight, almost 24/7, with intense activity… not a peep!
It seems as if they take the liberty to disable TLER, charge a pretty penny for the “Black” performance series and then wash their hands of any support if you “dare” use their drives in a RAID environment… clever!
NOT
What mainboard are you using and wich controller does it have?
Are you using a fakeraid (is the SATA controller in the bios set to “RAID”?) ?
Wich os do you use? (If using windows, update whatever “software” may “manage” the fakeraid)
These drives should not be used with hardware raid, this might also apply to fakeraid (which is what i think you are using).
These drives can be used with software raid (such as mdadm with linux).
Update all sata controller drivers.
Update all firmware (BIOS, etc).
You probably need to contact WD support.
But unless you can prove that each disks disconnects when used in non-raid, WD will probably refuse to help.
@mindmyind
Update all sata controller drivers. (“Matrix” storage stuff also).
Update all firmware (BIOS, etc).
You problem seems like a bios/fw/driver/os bug. Check for updates.
RAID is supposed to be so easy, plug and play
RAID is supposed to be serious. It is not a game. It is true that when everything goes ok it
seems to be easy but when problems happen, the truth is revealed. (how good is your raid
solution, error recovery procedures, options, etc).
“Western Digital does not provide direct technical support for RAID configuration and
maintenance, whether the RAID is hardware or software based. Since there are many currently
available RAID controllers, it is best to contact the manufacturer of your RAID controller
or motherboard manufacturer for assistance with creating and maintaining your RAID array.”
This is a rational thing to do, even if i dont like it.
It seems as if they take the liberty to disable TLER, charge a pretty penny for the “Black”
performance series and then wash their hands of any support if you “dare” use their drives
in a RAID environment… clever!
I do agree, disabling ‘selected’ ATA features and selling it for premium… clever!
Let’s hope nothing more gets chopped out from the greens.
And there is the issue with intellipark or whatever its name is, i have 2 WDEARS in non-raid
and no problem to this date, but i think that it might interfere with true hw raid and since
it cannot be disabled… → no hw-raid. I have blacks for sw-raid & os.
“and no problem to this date, but i think that it might interfere with true hw raid and since
it cannot be disabled… → no hw-raid. I have blacks for sw-raid & os.”
Funny you mention that… in my many rebuilds I even tried to disable RAID from BIOS (settings SATA to IDE) and then creating the “mirror” from Admin panel “disk management” in Windows 7 and once from IRST Windows utility.
When I rebooted, lo and behold, the BIOS had “changed back” to RAID!!!
The Intel RST drivers in the OS must be in a position to force the BIOS settings, interesting, uh?
BTW, I never meant to portrait RAID as a “game”, just that it’s fairly straight forward these days, particularly basic RAID0 and RAID1 settings; truth is, we heavily and wholeheartedly rely on the hardware (or the OS) to do the right thing by us, and if they fail in their job, you could be losing your treasured data!
Paul
Dear all, an update, because I will not let this one drop!
Have opened a tech ticket with WD on this, as I find they are at fault and not delivering on advertised capabilities.
Please all refer to the “Spec Sheet” for the Caviar Blacks available at:
http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701276.pdf
At the bottom of page 1, under the header “Applications”, clearly states:
“Desktop / Consumer RAID Environments - WD Caviar Black Hard Drives are tested and recommended for use in consumer-type RAID applications (RAID-0 / RAID-1).”
The Rep who replied to my ticket stated the old story that RAID requires RE drives (due to TLER function): well, that is not true, or they can be found in breach of current legislation and under scrutiny for false advertising.
You cannot advertise the Blacks as “tested and recommended” for use in desktop consumer RAID-0 or RAID-1 and then go and remove the TLER function, so you can say “oh… but you need to use RE drives instead”.
As mentioned, the Blacks are a fair bit more expensive, compared to Green and Blues, and it cannot only be due to an few more years of warranty… we are talking almost double the price here.
I have replied to the ticket that the explanation is unacceptable and to escalate the issue, as I will not spend close to $200 per drive and be told I cannot use it in a desktop RAID-1 on a very reliable branded motherboard such as Asus and on a revised and fixed chipset from giant Intel Corp.
The are not going to get away with this one, I will take this as far as I possibly can; depending on how the respond I will consider talking to ACCC and the Ombudsman.
I would appreciate if anyone else has a problem with these drives and agrees with my stance and would like to join the cause.
Many thanks.
Paul
Certainly, the documentation seems to indicate that it can be used
with “consumer” raid0 / raid1. The worst thing is that they do not
say what “consumer” means. To me it says that fakeraids are supported,
alongside software raid. What is clear is that tre harware raid HBA are
not supported. So yes, these drives should work.
Regarding the P8H67M-LE mobo, bugs could be also here in the firmware. You
should also hit asus hard with the other hand. Bugs could be in the BIOS or
UEFI (whatever it uses) or in the FAKERAID FIRMWARE (Also in the BIOS or UEFI,
normally). Keep in mind that WD may point to a “third party vendor motherboard”
as the guilty/suspect.
Also, there is a software component in the os, with may have it own bug.
Also, there may be bugs in the os itself or in any of its related drivers.
For example, the array is degraded by the bios/fakeraid_firmware on boot or by
the os component at shutdown?
Try different os, xp and vista, to determine i it is os specific.
On asus site, in P8H67M quality vendor list (QVL) the WD WD1002FAEX is explicitly listed as supported.
It even says “win7 ready”.
Well, I must admit that I was not familiar with the term “FAKERAID”.
Whether one likes it or not, RAID-0 and RAID-1 are fairly simple affairs to implement (at hardware or software level) but are most likely insufficient in an enterprise environment.
I think the distinction is pretty simple common sense: desktop/consumer level is anything that is not Enterprise, business or commercial in nature. Consumer would include running a home entertainment NAS, or a couple of computers at home to play games, run SETI@Home and do photography manipulation or home video montage: these applications are not commercial in nature, your home (even if you ran a small business from home) is not an enterprise environment, and cannot be expected to spend twice as much to purchase products aimed at large organisations or businesses. And one would hope WD is not trying to imply that. Again, reading the applications WD lists for RE drives makes the distinction pretty clear.
To answer your question about my problem, the only time the array is reported degraded is at boot up, only after a cold boot, typically the first cold boot after a fresh install. I can “restart” Windows many times and the RAID never degrades. But it has also occurred later on: after a full rebuild of the array performed by IRST within Windows, if I “shut down” and restart the machine, it will happen again.
The problem is always first recognised at POST. You can tell something is hanging for a few seconds, then the IRST BIOS ROM Utility pops up (as it should) but the array status is yellow “degraded” and lists only one of the two member drives as present. To address this, I have swapped disks around, changed power and data cables, connected the disks to two SATA3, two SATA2 and even across SATA2 and SATA3 ports on the motherboard which - as I have said - was the first thing I took back to the retailer. No joy.
The behaviour seems to indicate some “delay” in the initialisation of one disk, which causes the controller to drop it from the array and reporting the “degraded” condition. But Windows always finds the disks fully operational (green ticks) and advises the data protection system as “normal”, but undergoing a “rebuild”. It then takes many hours to complete, even if one kills all processes and non essential services; then if I do a cold boot, it starts all over again…
I have written on the Intel forums pressing for an update of the ageing IRST BIOS ROM - dated Dec 2010 - which is prior to the B3 revision and, technically, even prior to Sandy Bridge altogether!
You are correct, though, as Intel has indeed released firmare updates for their own motherboards, they could have issued one to Asus, who may just be working on a BIOS update to correct these issues. As you suggested, this afternoon I have opened a ticket with Asus support, will keep you posted.
The fact remains that if WD advertises the Caviar Black drives as “tested and recommended for consumer RAID-0 and RAID-1” they cannot say otherwise; they have the responsibility of working with Intel and Asus (and whatever other “third party” may be involved) to solve this problem.
My dilemma at the moment is what to do with my colleague’s computer. Do I install the two disks as standalone, with no RAID, and deliver with the gurantee of a later “solution” to implement the promised data protection? Or do I buy the more expensive RE drives to complete the task and foot the bill for the difference?
GPC67 wrote:
Dear all, an update, because I will not let this one drop!
Have opened a tech ticket with WD on this, as I find they are at fault and not delivering on advertised capabilities.
Please all refer to the “Spec Sheet” for the Caviar Blacks available at:
http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701276.pdf
At the bottom of page 1, under the header “Applications”, clearly states:
“Desktop / Consumer RAID Environments - WD Caviar Black Hard Drives are tested and recommended for use in consumer-type RAID applications (RAID-0 / RAID-1).”
The Rep who replied to my ticket stated the old story that RAID requires RE drives (due to TLER function): well, that is not true, or they can be found in breach of current legislation and under scrutiny for false advertising.
You cannot advertise the Blacks as “tested and recommended” for use in desktop consumer RAID-0 or RAID-1 and then go and remove the TLER function, so you can say “oh… but you need to use RE drives instead”.
As mentioned, the Blacks are a fair bit more expensive, compared to Green and Blues, and it cannot only be due to an few more years of warranty… we are talking almost double the price here.
I have replied to the ticket that the explanation is unacceptable and to escalate the issue, as I will not spend close to $200 per drive and be told I cannot use it in a desktop RAID-1 on a very reliable branded motherboard such as Asus and on a revised and fixed chipset from giant Intel Corp.
The are not going to get away with this one, I will take this as far as I possibly can; depending on how the respond I will consider talking to ACCC and the Ombudsman.
I would appreciate if anyone else has a problem with these drives and agrees with my stance and would like to join the cause.
Many thanks.
Paul
The rep was wrong, the drive is supported in RAID 1/0 as stated in the spec sheet.
I had your support incident referred to the level 2 group.
Thanks Toretto, I appreciate the intervention.
I have already received word from the next poor soul who has to deal with me… he asked about the drives behaviour in non-RAID configuration. The answer I have given is that they seem to be always recognised when set to IDE or AHCI.
But then they are also always recognised in RAID during initial install and through all the warm restarts, and even past a couple of cold boots… if I am lucky.
As mentioned, I am awaiting response from Asus support whilst the Intel forums are silent. Will raise a ticket with them too, but as the end user of a non-Intel branded motherboard, I am not sure Intel will necessarily deal with me directly.
UPDATE
Out of desperation, I installed the two WD2002FAEX in my main pc, an Asus P5Q3 Deluxe, with a Silicon Image SIL5723 RAID controller. It previously had 2 x Caviar Green 808.8GB (WD8088AADS) in “EZ Backup” mode (RAID-1) which never gave me a problem.
I trasferred all the data across to the Caviar Blacks.
As soon as I restarted the pc, the Silicon Image “EZ Backup” Windows utility started rebuilding the array, then verifying it for a total of over 12hrs!!
Common denominator here are the two WD2002FAEX, causing the same rebuild issue on completely different controllers.
But these drives tested fine with DLG Diagnostic Tools, so I am at a loss…
can you test with the link speed jumpered at 1.5Gbps [ideally on both controllers] (does it have jumpers?).
while i do not like fakeraids, having the exact issue on 2 different controllers with the same disks… i would definitivelly
suspect the disks.
this may seem desesperate, buy can you test with SSC (spead spectrum clock) enabled on the affected disks?
it should work with id disabled, but maybe there is a shielding issue.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Well… I may have jumped the gun a little, the error on the P5Q3 Deluxe was due to me plugging and unplugging drives.
After creating the RAID and letting it do a full rebuild and verification without messing with it, the EX Backup Windows utility on my main computer is reporting Array Normal, all the time, through many start and stops, many shutdowns and restarts, and warm reboots.
I have accessed both OS installed on that machine, and modified files and folders on the RAID and it is fully operational, indicating the drives are fine.
On the other hand, I have removed the 2 WD Green 808.8GB WD8088AADS which were in the main computer’s RAID and plugged these into the new P8H67-M LE… lo and behold, they worked flawlessly!!
So, if I had not listened to the retail salesperson, recommending against the use of Green drives in RAID arrays, and purchased my original choice of 2 WD20EARX (2TB Caviar green SATA3) I probably would have never had these issues in the first place!!
I find it very interesting and discorcening that the new motherboard, H67 Sandy Bridge and RAID controller would work without a hitch with slighly older green SATA2 drives than brand new Black SATA3 drives… maybe the older AADS have TLER active?!?
Anyhow, I am going to leave it as is, the new colleague’s computer is working fine and will be delivered in the afternoon, my main computer now has more (badly needed) storage space with an unexpected RAID-1 array upgrade to a 2TB.
Thanks all for help and support.
Regards
Paul
